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PROPER HERMENEUTICS AND THE FOLLY OF THE
"TWO CONVERSATION" ARGUMENT - Part 3
Studying Grammar and the Contextual Flow of The Olivet Discourse to
Disprove the Doctrine of Dispensationalism
Michael F. Blume
©
2010 Michael F. Blume
All
Rights Reserved
Futurists scramble trying to reason out
that Matthew
24 and Luke Mark
13 were not speaking about first century
destruction against Jerusalem like they know Luke 21 was. Some feel Matthew
24 mentioned some things that would occur in
the first century, though. At any rate, they know if there was one
conversation recorded in Matthew
24, Mark
13 and Luke
21, and Luke
21's conversation was about the
first century, then there is no account in the gospels that speaks
about a future tribulation period. Since their textbooks demand they
believe there is a future tribulation period then they have to argue
anything no matter how nonsensical it is and how much it violates
exegetical and hermeneutical rules of logic. This is what they have
done in order to propose their two conversations.
After the disciples asked
the questions that all were inspired by the destruction of the temple
of which Jesus spoke, Jesus used the pronouns "you" and "ye" and told
the people standing there that they would see a sequence of events
occur. Now, the futurist shows another incredibly stupid manner of
reasoning when they claim "you" and "ye" in Matthew
24 and Mark
13 are not strictly talking about the actual
people standing there. The futurists claims "ye" and "you" are used in
generally speaking to the people who would live thousands of years
later when these things would occur. First of all, one does not say
"you" to people and not intend those people to be included in that
reference.
The bible does at times use
the term "you" and "we" to refer to people of any age of the church.
For example, 2 Cor, 5 is agreed by everyone to speak of new bodies
which every believer shall get after this life is over, whether they
are saints alive now or saints who lived and died thousands of years
ago. "WE" covers all the saints of God from any age. But this cannot be
the case in using YOU or YE in Matthew
24 and Mark
21 if those people alive then could not
actually live to see those events Jesus said would come to pass. YOU
and YE must some how involve those people to whom Jesus spoke.
Although the futurist is
forced to wreak havoc on Christ's use of these pronouns in Matthew
24 and Mark
13, they apply the terms
correctly in Luke
21. Like 21:1-14 is claimed by
futurists to be about the first century destruction of Jerusalem.
Therefore, "you" and "ye" in that discussion of Jesus does indeed refer
to the people alive in that day who heard him speak. So, while the
futurist uses common sense and logic in Luke
21:1-24, the futurist loses it
and speaks ridiculously about the same terms used in Matthew
24 and Mark
21.
Futurists claim the
"ye" and "you" in these passages do
not refer to the
people to whom Jesus spoke:
Mat
24:1-15 KJV And
Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to
him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. (2) And Jesus said
unto them, See ye not
all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone
upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (3) And as he sat upon the
mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell
us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy
coming, and of the end of the world? (4) And Jesus answered and said
unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall
deceive many. (6) And ye shall
hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all
these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (7) For nation
shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall
be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. (8) All
these are the beginning of sorrows. (9) Then shall they deliver you up to
be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall
be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (10) And then shall many be
offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (12)
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
(13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (15) When ye therefore shall see the
abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in
the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
Mar 13:5-14 KJV And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest
any man deceive you: (6) For many shall come in my name,
saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (7) And when ye shall hear of wars and
rumours of wars, be ye not
troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
(8) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be
famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. (9) But take
heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the
synagogues ye shall
be beaten: and ye shall
be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against
them. (10) And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
(11) But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought
beforehand what ye shall
speak, neither do ye premeditate:
but whatsoever shall be given you in
that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy
Ghost. (12) Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the
father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and
shall cause them to be put to death. (13) And ye shall be hated of all men
for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same
shall be saved. (14) But when ye
shall see
the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then
let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Futurists claim the "ye" and "you" in these passages do refer to the people to whom
Jesus spoke:
Luke
21:8-20 KJV And he
said, Take heed that ye be
not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and
the time draweth near: go ye not
therefore after them. (9) But when ye shall
hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must
first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. (10) Then said he
unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against
kingdom: (11) And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and
famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall
there be from heaven. (12) But before all these, they shall lay their
hands on you, and persecute you,
delivering you up
to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and
rulers for my name's sake. (13) And it shall turn to you for a testimony. (14)
Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: (15) For I
will give you a
mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to
gainsay nor resist. (16) And ye shall
be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends;
and some of you shall
they cause to be put to death. (17) And ye shall be hated of all men
for my name's sake. (18) But there shall not an hair of your
head perish. (19) In your patience possess ye your
souls. (20) And when ye shall
see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation
thereof is nigh.
Notice the sequence of
events is identical in each account, and yet these are supposed to be
two conversations speaking of events separated by thousands of years!
DISPENSATIONALISM IS PROVED
TO BE WRONG by sheer virtue of logic and common sense in grammatical
reading and analysis. It is absurd to say that the identical pronouns
used in all three gospels do not mean the same people in two of the
three accounts.
The following
accounts are refuted by dispensationalists to be identical sequence of
events.
Luke
21:3-24 And he
said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more
than they all: (4) For all these have of their abundance cast in unto
the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living
that she had. (5) And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned
with goodly stones and gifts, he said, (6) As for these things which ye
behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one
stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (7) And they asked
him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will
there be when these things shall come to pass? (8) And
he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my
name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not
therefore after them. (9) But when ye shall hear of wars and
commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass;
but the end is not by and by. (10) Then said he unto them, Nation shall
rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: (11) And great
earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences;
and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. (12) But
before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you,
delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought
before kings and rulers for my name's sake. (13) And it shall turn to
you for a testimony. (14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to
meditate before what ye shall answer: (15) For I will give you a mouth
and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor
resist. (16) And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren,
and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put
to death. (17) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
(18) But there shall not an hair of your head perish. (19) In your
patience possess ye your souls. (20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem
compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let
them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are
in the countries enter thereinto. (22) For these be the days of
vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (23) But
woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those
days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon
this people. (24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and
shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be
trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be
fulfilled.
Mark
13:4-23 Tell us,
when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these
things shall be fulfilled? (5) And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed
lest any man deceive you: (6) For many shall come in my name, saying, I
am Christ; and shall deceive many. (7) And when ye shall hear of wars
and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be;
but the end shall not be yet. (8) For nation shall rise against nation,
and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers
places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the
beginnings of sorrows. (9) But take heed to yourselves: for they shall
deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten:
and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a
testimony against them. (10) And the gospel must first be published
among all nations. (11) But when they shall lead you, and deliver you
up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye
premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak
ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. (12) Now the
brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and
children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to
be put to death. (13) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's
sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(14) But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by
Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth
understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
(15) And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house,
neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: (16) And let
him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his
garment. (17) But woe to them that are with child, and to them that
give suck in those days! (18) And pray ye that your flight be not in
the winter. (19) For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not
from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time,
neither shall be. (20) And except that the Lord had shortened those
days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath
chosen, he hath shortened the days. (21) And then if any man shall say
to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: (22)
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs
and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. (23) But
take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
They match except for
variation of words that you find in any given Gospel account noted in
all three Gospels! Anyone can see that! the words in red parallel each
other between Luke and Mark!
And let me add this while I am
at it:
Look at the matching elements:
1) Both accounts show Jesus
commenting on the temple and disciples asking about THOSE things.
2) Both accounts show false
Christs.
3) Both accounts show wars and
rumours of wars/commotions
4) Both accounts show famines.
5) Both accounts show nation
against nation and kingdom against kingdom.
6) Both accounts show
reference for time for such things
7) Both account show believers
taken up before councils, and told not to worry but the words would be
given them to testify.
8) Both account show warnings
that family members will betray them.
9) Both account show some will
be put to death
10) Both account show a SIGN
TO FLEE desolation, one associated with abomination and the other with
Jerusalem surrounded by armies. -- BUT ONE COMMON "DESOLATION".
11) Both account show THEM IN
JUDAEA TOLD TO FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS as a result.
12) Both account show emphasis
on fleeing and not hesitating to do so.
13) Both account show specific
words to mothers with children still suckling.
Dispensationalists claim the
accounts do not match. Too many matching details say otherwise.
The forest is too obvious, but dispensationalists split hairs in minor
points that are common in every account where the Gospels recount the
same stories, but only vary in wording, anyway. It's ridiculous
beyond description to say these are not the same conversation.
And after this point in Luke,
where they claim it did not match Mark nor Matthew, Luke continued
with the same information Mark and Matthew continue with after this
AFTER after this point in Mark and Matthew. Had Luke started at
verse 25 with the complete discussion repeated from Mark and
Matthew, and not started halfway through it as dispensationalists
claim, then we would have a record of two conversations proved to have
occurred in sequence. But they do not have that.
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